Sex Without Kissing?

topic posted Tue, February 26, 2008 - 4:36 PM by  Khrysso Heart
I ran across this article just now: I've capitalized the lines that I wanted to highlight for possible discussion in this tribe.

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Pucker up: What's in a kiss?
Researchers say it's the drive to keep the species alive
Cathleen F. Crowley, Albany Times Union, N.Y.

Oct. 1--Divas like Aretha Franklin and Cher advise "It's in his kiss."

Now, thanks to research from the University at Albany, there's scientific evidence to support their claim.

A kiss transmits a sumptuous supply of data ranging from health, fertility and commitment level to sexual receptivity, according to UAlbany researchers.

Evolutionary psychologist George Gallup and two former graduate students surveyed more than 1,000 UAlbany undergraduates about their kissing motives and practices in heterosexual relationships. The results of their study were recently published in Evolutionary Psychology, an online, peer-reviewed journal.

The kiss, they found, profoundly influences a relationship, particularly for women. For both sexes, a bad "first kiss" can end the romance in an instant.

Men kiss as a means to an end, to gain sexual favors and to make up after a fight, the study showed. Women kiss to assess a potential partner, establish and monitor the status of their relationship and evaluate the level of commitment of the man.

"In a sense, kissing is a microcosm of a larger instance of competing reproductive strategies among males and females," Gallup said. "It fits a lot of evidence about the differences in male and female strategies."

As an evolutionary psychologist, Gallup believes the drive to reproduce and pass one's genes to subsequent generations dominates human behavior. Aiding in this effort to reproduce are "adaptive" traits, both learned and innate, that evolved to increase the chances of success.

"Kissing appears to be part of an evolved courtship strategy among humans," he said.

Breeding process

While almost all of the surveyed students said that kissing is important for emotional bonding, MORE THAN HALF THE MEN SAID THEY WOULD HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN WITHOUT EVER KISSING HER. ABOUT 14 PERCENT OF THE WOMEN SAID THEY'D ENGAGE IN SEX WITHOUT A KISS. [caps added for emphasis]

Gallup traces this heightened selectivity among women to their disproportionate investment in the breeding process.

"Males and females have an equal stake in the production of offspring, but females bear the lion's share of the costs," he said.

Women endure pregnancy, childbirth and breast-feeding, and often act as the primary caregiver, Gallup said.

"Reproduction for females involves the investment of an inordinate amount of time, resources and psychological commitment that extends a period of, in some instances, decades," he said. "The male's role in reproduction is simply to serve as a complementary source of gametes."

A well-chosen male partner, however, is so much more: a source of support, protection and stability.

"You would expect females to have become careful comparison shoppers when it comes to the question of mate selection," Gallup said.

When deciding whether to kiss someone, the female students rated breath, taste and the appearance of healthy teeth as important while the men placed more significance on facial attractiveness, body appearance and weight of a potential partner, features that signal fertility, Gallup said.

Taste and breath carry signs of underlying health problems, possibly warning women of a problem in a potential mate. Women's already-superior sense of smell and taste become even more acute during ovulation, the study noted.

Unconscious mechanisms

More than half of both men and women surveyed said they have been attracted to someone only to discover that, after kissing for the first time, they were no longer interested.

"It suggests that there may be unconscious mechanisms that have evolved to identify instances of genetic incompatibility," Gallup said.

Women were less likely to agree to sex with a bad kisser than men, who were more willing to have sex not only with bad kissers, but also with women they weren't attracted to, the study found. The results support the theory that men are opportunistic breeders, striving to spread their DNA and increase the likelihood of passing their genes to the next generation.

So where's the romance?

"Students that take my undergraduate course in evolutionary psychology frequently complain that it leaves out any discussion of romance," Gallup laughed. "My response is that romance is simply the evolutionary glue that serves to promote and maintain the relationship for the best interest of the participants."

And love?

"An example of an evolved mechanism that serves to solidify a pair bond," he said.

Interpersonal learning

Call him a romantic, but James Pfaus, behavioral neurobiologist at Canada's Concordia University, can't divorce social and interpersonal learning from the equation.

"If we created a world that was doing what evolutionary psychologists say we should be doing, then we should have created harems," Pfaus said.

Pfaus, a trained psychologist and researcher at the university's Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, studies human sexuality and is developing a female version of Viagra.

"It's hard to know if the gender differences (in the UAlbany study) are innate to the gender, or whether it is something that has been completely socially learned by boys and girls," he said.

For instance, the difference between men's and women's willingness to have sex with a bad kisser has a socially learned explanation.

"Why would a women not sleep with a good kisser? Well, because she's not a slut," he said. "Whereas a guy who sleeps with someone who is a good kisser or not, there's another word that starts with an 's' that defines him: stud."

Pfaus doesn't completely dismiss physiology.

He has studied the sexual behavior of rats and found that female rats prefer copulating with male rats that turn them on.

Human females need significantly more stimulation to become sexually aroused than males, and kissing is one of those turn-ons. If a woman deems a man to be a good kisser, that suggests he is attuned to her sexual needs, making her more likely to agree to sex with him, Pfaus said.

The results of the UAlbany study raised some interesting issues, but Pfaus said he feels sorry for his fellow males.

"It's sad because it means men are missing out on getting into kissing," he said. "And kissing is delicious."

Cathleen F. Crowley can be reached at 454-5348, or by e-mail at ccrowley@timesunion.com.

[the following is presumably a sidebar]

Kiss and tell

Results from the University at Albany study on kissing:

52.8 percent of men and 14.6 percent of women said they would have sex without kissing someone first.

70.1 percent of men and 58 percent of women thought kissing could end a fight.

69 percent of men and 67 percent of women felt that just because someone was a good kisser would not be a reason to start a relationship.

55.6 percent of men and 26.8 percent of women preferred open mouth kissing during courtship.

65 percent of men and women preferred open mouth kissing in a long-term relationship.

59 percent of men and 66 percent of women said they have been attracted to someone only to find that after the first kiss, they weren't interested any more.

60 percent of the surveyed students said they were in a committed relationship.

Only five students out of the 1,041 surveyed had never been kissed, while 70 percent had kissed between six and 20 people.

Kissing facts

The science of kissing is called philematology.

A one-minute kiss burns 26 calories.

16 muscles converge at the lip area, but a passionate kiss activates all 34 facial muscles.

Researcher theorize that human kissing started as a way for mothers to feed their infants, by chewing food and transferring it to their babies' mouths.

Freud believed kissing was the subconscious return to infancy and suckling a mother's breast.

90 percent of the world practices kissing, but some cultures do not, including the Papuans of New Guinea and the San of southwest Africa.

The Kama Sutra describes 20 different types of kissing, including the Throbbing Kiss, in which the lower lip trembles.

Bonobo apes engage in deep tongue kissing, and chimpanzees frequently kiss to make up after a fight. Snails rub their antennae together and great blue herons clap their bills.

A 2006 British study found that people who lean left while kissing tend to be emotionally less available than those who lean to the right.

A 2007 British study that compared brain scans of men and women while eating chocolate and kissing, found that chocolate was twice as stimulating as kissing for women.

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Copyright (c) 2007, Albany Times Union, N.Y.

Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

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posted by:
Khrysso Heart
Columbus
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Wed, February 27, 2008 - 12:07 AM
    ... I must be in the women category for chocolate. ~:o)

    Nice find Khrysso! I must admit there is much food for thought in there. Interesting how the findings on kissing seem to reinforce the two "opposing sexual agendas" of our species.

    But I'm sure most of us can agree that kissing is damn yummy.
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:39 AM
    Bleh. Sensationalist, sexist, crap, imo.

    Yes, many of the things they are stating could be true for some people, but I don't buy the gender divisions nor the sensationalism.
    • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

      Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:26 AM
      Teamnoir, I probably share your apparent dim view of the media hype usually found in press releases and such, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call it "sensationalistic," as you do, twice.

      As for the gender divisions, I'm not sure what you find so objectionable about them.

      Therefore, I don't (yet) share your judgment that it's "crap."

      Interesting that the issue of media hype would come up for me in two different tribes at the same time, both concerning news items that very probably began with press releases from academic sources.

      Schools can't really have "marketing" departments and such, so they have to generate exposure in other ways... One of which is press releases, which are (I know, because I am a writer and have studied press-release writing specifically) designed to "hook" the reader in the span of one sentence.

      But I'm not sure that all that is attention-grabbing is sensationalistic.

      I, for one, would be interested in hearing your case, should you like to build one.

      That said, you mention nothing about the concept that there appear to be those who would have sex without kissing their partners, which I find unthinkable, let alone beyond the realm of my practice. But apparently it is quite thinkable to more than an isolated few.

      What do you think of the subject, setting aside the medium for the moment?
      • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

        Sat, March 1, 2008 - 9:46 AM
        I have a vocabulary of quite a number of physically intimate activities which I share with various partners. Very few relationships include all of them. With some partners we have never done needles. With others, we haven't done ritual, or tantra. With others, no oral sex. Or no unprotected sex. Or we haven't done the same drugs together. Or only one of us has ever topped. Or we've played, but not with d/s. Or we've played with some things, but not particular other role plays.

        Kissing to me isn't a prerequisite for anything else any more than flogging is. Of course kissing can be indicative for all of the reasons named in the article. But then, the exact same thing can be said of holding hands. Or of eye gazing. Or of fucking. There's really no reason to believe that there are any more people who use kissing as a barometer to fucking than there is to believe that there are more people who use fucking as a barometer to kissing. The unsupported presupposition in the article which is sensationalized is simply a bias in the matter which detracts from what actual data really is presented.

        I have sex without kissing fairly frequently in many contexts including tantra, bdsm scenes, and intimate relationships, sometimes because that's just how the relationship has evolved. Sometimes because I enjoy other things with a particular partner and may or may not enjoy kissing them. Sometimes because I have mouth sores. Sometimes various other reasons. None of these things necessarily means that I'm incapable of kissing or of enjoying kissing as the article would suggest.
        • Re: incapable of kissing?

          Sat, March 1, 2008 - 8:00 PM
          I didn't infer that the article said anything about capability or incapability.

          I think you've read a lot more into some of the statements than I did, which could explain why I found the article interesting and you found it to be "crap."

          Interesting, too, that you would refer to kissing as a "prerequisite." Sometimes, for me, kissing *is* sex--it's certainly something that, almost by itself, has brought me to orgasm. Your use of the word this way lands on my ear the same way as "appetizer" would (or at least "foreplay").

          > There's really no reason to believe that there are any more people who use kissing as a barometer to fucking than there is to believe that there are more people who use fucking as a barometer to kissing.

          I suppose that, strictly as a syllogism, this statement is valid and true, but until I think about it more, I am very skeptical of it. Anecdotally, I'd be inclined to say that it is not a true statement.

          Nor do I believe that you're necessarily comparing apples to apples here, since "physically intimate activities I share with various partners" is not necessarily synonymous with "uncasual sex" in my book. In fact, I submit that "physically intimate activities" can in fact be be distinctly casual, and I suspect that there are members of this tribe who consider anything involving "various" partners to be incompatibile with the phrase "uncasual."

          But I guess that's for other threads, ones along the lines of "what is "uncasual" sex?"

          As for me, if I were to find myself making love to a partner who was able but not willing to kiss me (probably a lot) during lovemaking, I would probably have serious second thoughts about whether I would be willing to consider pursuing an "uncasual" relationship with him. So far none of my relationships with such have been sustainable for me.
          • Re: incapable of kissing?

            Mon, March 3, 2008 - 10:39 PM
            And I think that you haven't read enough into either the article or my response. You're arguing as though I were holding the opposite point of the one I've expressed in several places.

            Seems to me that "uncasual" is whatever someone decides that it is for them. No particular act is going to be universally casual or uncasual.

            Personally, I'm a paradox. I aspire to casual because casual to me is the most uncasual thing I can imagine. Put another way, I aspire to casual because it's something I don't know how to do yet. Uncasual is easy for me.

            As for what qualifies for me...

            Some behaviors are more intimate for me than others. Less intimate behaviors are easier to explore with people I don't know well. The hard part is big jumps in the apparent intimacy level of a relationship. Except that I know very well that not everyone uses the same judgments on intimacy levels. So what seems like a big jump for one person may not seem like much of a jump for another.

            For instance, to me, open mouth to mouth kissing is moderately intimate. But flogging, while physically intimate, and potentially very intimate, isn't necessarily very intimate at all for me. I find it much easier to control the level of intimacy involved in a flogging than in open mouth kissing. So for me, casual flogging is fairly comfortable and represents a fairly low jump in the intimacy level of a relationship.

            Personally, I find manual/genital contact less intimate in general than open mouth to mouth kissing. or maybe it's just that I can control the level of intimacy more easily. And, if I were to count, I've probably had manual genital contact with perhaps twice as many people as I've ever practiced deep open mouth kissing. Anecdotally, I'm also well aware of a number of people, probably most of my friends, who feel similarly. Latex gloves are pretty comprehensive and I'm not going to kiss with dental dams. Overall, disease vectors are significantly higher from kissing than from manual/genital. And at this point in my life, emotional risk is also significantly higher. I honestly can't remember the last time I kissed someone earlier in a relationship than we had sex, (of some sort). And I've never found manual/genital contact to be unpleasant, although I've numerous kissing sessions that I've found to be unpleasant.

            Please don't confuse multiple partners with a lack of sincerity or passion. I believe we've already seen that this tribe does indeed contain people who practice both monogamy as well as polyamory. And I don't think it's appropriate to judge either approach as a priori more or less casual for all people at all times.
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Wed, February 27, 2008 - 9:48 PM
    Hehehe... great article. Informative and very entertaining, too.
    • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

      Sat, March 1, 2008 - 3:55 PM
      Really interesting topic! Over the course of my life and relationships I've always mourned when we seemed to pass through the "kissing stage" (is that First Base or Second Base? I forget) and move more quickly into intercourse. It's part of a larger discussion about foreplay, of which I'm of the opinion that more is almost always better -- though "quickies" are erotic too and certainly have their place!
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Tue, March 4, 2008 - 5:54 AM
    For me, kissing is an invitation to become intimate, to become part of my romantic life. It's not something to be taken, or to offer, casually. I won't kiss someone on the mouth unless I want to get to know them better as a person, and unless I'm willing to open up more vulnerable portions of myself to them. Occasionally, the kiss itself is what might make me decide that I'm not willing to open up at all.

    My favorite kiss story, and a good example of what I'm talking about: I was set up on a blind date with the friend of my good friend's boyfriend. We went out to a very expensive dinner, and there were very few sparks between us, but still he seemed nice enough for me to give him a chance. Later that evening, he tried to kiss me. I say tried, because he came at me with his mouth wide open, like he meant to swallow my face whole. It was all I could do not to scream and run away. Instead, I allowed him one small kiss out of politeness, and then never contacted him again. I wouldn't even let him pay for my dinner, after that attempt at a kiss.
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Tue, March 4, 2008 - 3:58 PM
    I for one hold kissing in high regards. The kiss tells a lot about someone! As for kissing during sex, I prefer not to. There are so many other things to do and other places to kiss that I don't feel it necessary while having intercourse. Now this creates a problem in some men because if they kiss with intense passion over admiration for someone, more times then not they want to take the leap into the physical. This is not necessary. If you are really in tune with yourself, a very passionate kiss with someone is an art, a giving of ones self, a deep exchange as fulfilling as sexual intercourse.
  • Re: Sex Without Kissing?

    Sun, March 23, 2008 - 1:07 PM
    i can't imagine sex without kissing. kissing is a completion i experience, a roundness, in the the coupling of my hardness in "your" soft wetness is joined, made somehow whole and round and circular in our mouths and tongues coupling and then i experience this flow of delight going round and round through us .... i can't imagine not kissing.

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